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Comment by Toe Knee Bee Ears on December 14, 2012 at 8:35pm

@Happy Birthday Roboto I agree with just about everything you said. Only I like Thor. Although, I have to admit I like the Richard Donner's Superman films a lot more.

Comment by Happy Birthday Roboto on December 14, 2012 at 1:45pm

@Toe Knee Bee Ears + Michael-Orian
I know this conversation is pretty much over but just to throw my two cents in...

Superman was created as a wish fulfilment character by a writer whose father had been killed in a bank robbery, Batman was only an attempt to give Detective Comics a detective in a costume, just as Action Comics had a sci-fi character in a costume in Superman. 

Superman stories can be dark and Batman stories can be uplifting but these characters work best the other way around. 

Even with the Adam West Batman TV Show and the Filmation Super Friends and the Tim Burton movie, we'd never had an onscreen retelling of Batman's origins the most we'd had was a flashback to the night his folks were killed here and a recap of how he travelled the world there. Hell even Batman Year One is billed as the "official" Batman origin and it's nothing of the sort, in fact it starts after his training and makes no mention of how he obtained his training. The best we had is Batman mask of the Phantasm, but that picked up after he returned to Gotham (still a lot better than Year One)! So Batman Begins was not only necessary it was a no brainer! If Man of Steel retells Superman's origin it's a colossal waste of time and money, especially a few years after Smallville. 

Also not only do Richard Donner's Superman films still hold up, they put many modern movies to shame ::cough:: Thor ::cough::! 

@Zeak Fury
Welling has already said he's not interested, bummer or great depending on how you look at it! 

Comment by Zeak Fury on December 14, 2012 at 12:10pm

Why can't they make a superman movie with tom welling? >.<"

Comment by Toe Knee Bee Ears on December 14, 2012 at 3:19am

@MaxJayJay "So you're saying that since Batman was created in the 30s, it should always have an uplifting tone and should always be a hope for the future." No, I was not saying that at all. I never said that ALL superheroes created in the 30s had to have and uplifting feel.

 I said that Superman just happens to be one that was created out of a time of darkness to give a feeling of hope. Batman was created out of a time of darkness to give a feeling of Justice. Batman was created as sort of fighting fire with fire approach. Most superhero characters are created as a product of their time. Not all take the same approach. For example, Captain America like Superman was created during the war as a symbol of hope, whereas Namor the Sub-mariner was created during the war as more of a symbol of anger. Sometimes dark times created dark characters sometimes dark time create hopeful characters. The creators of Superman just happen to take of approach of hope. My point was that just because times are dark does not mean that all comics, books, music, movies or any media must be dark as well. That sometimes the darkest times create the most hopeful characters. That sometimes it's better to have hopeful films during dark times. That just because something isn't dark it doesn’t make it not realistic.

It's OK for comics to experiment and do dark stories with hopeful characters because comics are continuous monthly publications. It's actually best to switch things up because you don't want the audience to get bored. But, since comics are a continuing monthly publication the audience knows that whatever happens to the character, say a writer screws up, whatever is screwed up can be fixed latter on.  Or say that something happens that has a huge effect that changes that character; more often than not that character will return to the roots of that character. For example when Superman died, the comic had a very dark tone for a long time. However, Superman came back and the tone of the comic came back to its hopeful tone.

With movies it's totally different. In a franchise just one movie comes out only every few years. So for a few years this is the audience’s perception of the character. So they better get the character and the overall tone of the comic right. That's why Batman & Robin didn't work. Because while yes, Batman did have many campy stories the overall tone of the comic's entire history is dark. In the case of Superman while yes, the comic had many dark stories the overall tone of the comic’s entire history is hopeful. Therefore, a movie that an entire generation will consider there Superman should reflect the true overall tone of the comic’s entre history which is hopeful.

So far the film doesn’t look dark at all, TO YOU.  That's your opinion. But TO ME it does. That's my opinion. Neither one of is right or wrong. 

Comment by MaxJayJay on December 13, 2012 at 9:58pm

@Toe

So you're saying that since Batman was created in the 30s, it should always have an uplifting tone and should always be a hope for the future. A Superman story can be dark and can be applied to any superhero. Examples that were dark and done right were “Superman: Red Son” or even “The Man Who Have Everything”. Many superheroes and comic characters may have started off as entertainment to get by through the Depression, but as times goes by especially with the Marvel’s Silver Age time, writers and artists have taken liberties to tell stories with many range including realistic to dark. Both Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns realized that. If you’re suggesting that this film needs to be a hopeful film because of the harsh times we live in with all the economy and stuffs and Superman needs you to make you feel better, then that’s kinda inconsiderate and unrealistic of you.

So far the film doesn’t look dark at all and doesn’t possess any grittiness, but its look more emotional and dramatic.

Comment by Toe Knee Bee Ears on December 13, 2012 at 7:09pm

@Robert Wild, I think you meant me not Michael-Orian.  Reality is also happy at times, get over it.  Real life has its ups and Downs. So far, I've only seen downs in this trailer. I hope you're right and this movie is uplifting but I don't see any evidence of that yet.

Realistically people's reaction to Superman would be mixed. In this trailer I only see one reaction that of rejection of Superman.

If you read the comments there are people who want this movie to be dark.  Michael-Orian is one who said "I am actually for it being darker."

I myself am for a realistic Superman as long as it is balanced. It shouldn't be too dark or too light. It should be somewhere in the middle. However, in my opinion this trailer is only showing the dark parts therefore it makes the movie look too heavy on the dark tone.

Remember, that I am only criticizing the trailer itself not the movie. The trailer should have been more balanced by showing all aspects of the movie instead of all the dark parts.  After all, even the Dark Knight Rises trailer had a joke in it. Remember, "This an't a car." Hopefully the Man of Steel movie itself will be balanced. Again, I hope you’re right and that the movie will have an overall uplifting feel.

Comment by Michael-Orian on December 13, 2012 at 6:30pm

@Robert Wild
I'm not sure if your comment was really meant for me, I am actually for it being darker or more realistic and never said it look depressive

Comment by Robert Wild on December 13, 2012 at 4:35pm

@Michael-Orian

There is a difference between dark and reality. Reality is sad at times, get over it. That's how the world is. This film isn't supposed to be depressing like you said, this film is going to show Superman in the real world, how the people will react to someone with that kind of power, and the stages he must take to gain the trust of the people. Point is, Superman is STILL going to be shown as a symbol of hope, NOT depressing, BUT, this film will show HOW he becomes that symbol of hope. They aren't making Superman dark and gritty, they are making him human.

The whole point is that this film will end with him BECOMING the symbol of hope and light, no one said this will be dark and gritty Superman. This is simply Superman in a darker WORLD, a world that NEEDS hope. It's not always flowers and rainbows, this will be a world that actually needs someone with his power to save them and bring us into the light.

Comment by Toe Knee Bee Ears on December 13, 2012 at 3:10pm

@Michael-Orian  Regardless of you claim that it does not "hold up", the Donner 1978 Superman is the type of movie that does exactly what you described. It tackles dark themes and is uplifting in the end. It does have its dark moments. There is a lot of death in the movie. Clark's parents die. Clark's adopted father dies. In fact, Clark's entire home world dies. It does this without an overall dark tone. At the end the audience is left with a feeling of hope.

If Man of Steel can do the same then it will succeed. However, if it's not uplifting and hopeful then it fails to be a Superman movie.

And no, Superman does not need to be dark if they want to be more in touch. Any movie can be in touch without being dark. Nor does it have to be dark to be good.

Comment by Michael-Orian on December 13, 2012 at 12:43pm

@Toe Knee Bee Ears
A film can tackle dark themes and be uplifting in the end results. I guess we will have to wait for the movie to come out. I will say it is suprising, by the look of the trailer, that this was directed by Zack Snyder

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