I'm a Spillio who lives in the Toronto area. I love this website and all of the Spill crew, but often feel disconnected from the community living so far away from Austin, Texas. So I thought I'd see if there were any other Spillios who…"
I'm a Spillio who lives in the Toronto area. I love this website and all of the Spill crew, but often feel disconnected from the community living so far away from Austin, Texas. So I thought I'd see if there were any other Spillios who live in the GTA who'd be interested in meeting up and hanging out for social events.
I'm thinking stuff like movie nights (obviously), karaoke, paintball, gaming, wonderland, etc. Fan Expo is also happening this month which would be the perfect occasion for a meetup.
I've created a group on the site. It's called "Toronto Spillios". If you can't find it, there's a link to it on my profile page. Join up! It's a great chance to get together with people who love the site and love movies in general.
"I don't know why or how insulting me is helping your arguments.
Moreover, I don't see how calling my arguments weak is helping your arguments either."
Because you're arguing with unfounded and opinionated statements. You're drawing conclusions on simply what you see, and what you feel, and not thinking about the culture that created these characters, which is vastly different from yours and mine(America).
"Fact of the matter is... having contradictory feelings... is contradictory feelings. How can you be repulsed and attracted at the same time?"
Matt Thorn's words, not mine. Honestly, you'll be surprised at where this can come in...one can admire the stoic focus of a nation, for example, but be repulsed by their treatment of religion.
"If you are drawing japanese characters with caucasian features and calling those characters purely japanese... thats just delusional."
Look, THIS is delusional. Why does it have to be "Caucasian features"? I don't remember the red eyes of Demon Eyes Kyo being Caucasian, or the pink hair of Haruno Sakura from Naruto Caucasian. AGAIN, this is only part of the anime and manga culture, not ANY indicator of race. If you look at ANY anime, it's not about how the character looks, and RARELY, the audience have to be told that said character is Japanese...it's all about subtle things, like the names, or how they dress, or their surroudings.
For example, the main character of Bleach is Kurosaki Ichigo(Ichigo Kurosaki in Western order), an obvious Japanese name. He has blond hair and is teased by bullies for it, yet he is meant to be Japanese. If the creators meant for said character to be a Non-European, it would be revealed either by name, mannerisms, and in rare cases(such as dark skinned races), the look(which, even then, means nothing...which of the countries did the black person come from? Africa? Uk? Canada? America?).
To give you yet ANOTHER example, Full Metal Panic. Notice that main character Sousuke Sagara( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Fmp_sagara.jpg) and Tessa Testarossa(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Teletha_Testarossa_1.jpg) are drawn the exact same way. Yet, Sagara Sousuke is Japanese, while Tessa is a descendent of Austrian and Swiss ancestors, and was born in America.
"Saying that manga characters, just cause they are made by japanese people are all japanese is also delusional. Thats like saying Snake eyes and Storm Shadow from G.I. Joe are caucasian just cause their creators are caucasian.
BTW, Snake eyes and Storm Shadow are japanese in G.I. Joe - they are not caucasian."
But we are comparing TWO DIFFERENT CULTURES. It's not the same thing at all. In America, we need racial identifiers, because there are various races living in this nation, as well as Canada. In Japan, there is a majority homogenious race, i.e. the eponomyous "ethnic" Japanese.
Also, again, as Matt Thorn pointed out, AND CAN BE EASILY SEEN IN ANY ANIME, anime does not use overt racial identifiers, or tell you that their protagonists are Japanese. This ranges from Himura Kenshin of Ruroni Kenshin, to Kusanagi Motoki from Ghost In the Shell, to Uzumaki Naruto of Naruto. It's all about the subtle things, like names and culture, not overt things, like how a character looks.
The blond hair/blue eyes thing is the same as green hair, purple hair, blue hair...just one of the many things that Japanese give their characters to make them unique. I'm not saying that the Japanese DON'T create European characters, but again, it's indicated by the characters' name and manner of dress, NOT just how the character looks.
"EXACTLY MY POINT! Hello!
Matt Thorn says that caucasian's never dominated Japanese society.... hence he is trying to point out that there is NO influence from the caucasian side."
And? This proves nothing.
"The argument isn't about other cultures... its about japanese manga and japanese animation. Unfounded and poor? How so? If its unfounded... then you are practically saying that animation and comic books were a japanese invention."
But it is. You're trying to argue that the Japanese essentially stole cartoons from the Europeans, which is foolish. Cultures borrow from each other all the time...hell, i just got through reading about Carl Jung's archtypes' concept...ideas that are passed down from generations and shared across national and cultural boundaries, despite seperation. Basically, it explains the concept of the Sky-Father in mythology for example, such as Woden/Odin for Teutonic mythology and Zeus for Greek Mythology.
And please...I never said that cartoons were a Japanese invention. Ironically, the "round-eyes" of anime STEMMED from Ozuma Tezuka(creator of Astro Boy) being inspired by Disney cartoons, hence influencing future anime and manga creators.
But, the distinctive ANIME IS a Japanese invention, i.e. it is the Japanese cartoon.
"Just cause you give it a new name like "anime" and "manga" does not mean its your own invention."
"How am I ethnocentric? Cause I want anime characters to be caucasian?
I'm south asian, no white man can come close to my skin tone even with multiple tans.
In my opinion, a japanese guy looks as ridiculous as a south asian guy with blonde hair and blue eyes. If you want to take an anime adaptation seriously... the one thing you have to do is... not to look ridiculous "
Did you read anything in my last posting?
You can't apply real life to anime, or you're saying that whites have purple, blue, and other impossible and fantastic hairs and features. It's silly here.
If you want to maintain your weak defense, have fun. But, i've provided you material in the last post to refer to if you don't believe me.
"Its not just blonde hair, but also blue eyes.
If you still believe that it should've been a japanese playing the part... talk about identity issues... because to me... it sounds like these Japanese people want to be white people. "
Then you're ethnocentric(thinking with your culture instead of realizing there are other cultures out there). You're going by your culture, and not their's, where Japanese characters are also given green, purple, and other colors of hair and eyes. For example, the character Demon Eyes Kyo, from Samurai Deeper Kyo, has red eyes. It's not at all realistic...unless you're going to argue that white people have natural red eyes and purple hair?
It's a general mistake people make about judging anime characters by how they look. Check out this book, "The Anime Companion", and it will explain and confirm everything I've told you. http://www.stonebridge.com/anime/animecomp.html
Also, check out these words by Matt Thorn:
Are manga characters White?
By Matthew A. Thorn
Whenever I speak to non-Japanese people about manga, I always get the same question: "Why are the characters White?" I answer: "Why do you think they are White?" "Because of the round eyes," or the "blonde hair," is the common response. When I then ask if the questioner actually knows anyone who looks anything like these cartoons, the response may be, "Well, they look more Caucasian than Asian." Considering the wide range of variation in Caucasian and Asian features, and the fact that these highly stylized drawings fall nowhere within that range, it seems odd to claim that such cartoons look "more like" one people than another.
Linguists have a useful pair of terms - "marked" and "unmarked" - for talking about one of the ways people categorize ideas. An "unmarked" category is one that is taken for granted, that is so obvious to both speaker and listener it needs no marking. A "marked" category, on the other hand, is one that is seen as deviating from the norm, and therefore requires marking. For example, in English, the word "man" (which can mean "humankind") is unmarked, while "woman" (which comes from "wife-man") is marked as a subcategory of "man." In the case of cartooning, of course, we are dealing with drawings rather than words, but the concept of "marked" applies here too. In the case of the European-dominated world, the unmarked category in drawings would be the face of the European. The "White" face is the default face. Draw a circle, add two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth, and you have, in the European sphere, a male European face. Add eyelashes and it becomes female! Non-Europeans, however, must be marked with characteristics such as "slanted eyes" or shaded skin. Even non-Europeans living in a European-dominated society unconsciously absorb and adhere to these standards.
Japan, however, is not and never has been a European-dominated society, and the Japanese do not need to include stereotyped racial markers such as slanted eyes or straight, black hair. In Japan, a circle with two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth is Japanese.
It should come as no surprise, then, that Japanese readers should have no trouble accepting the stylized characters in manga, with their small jaws, all but nonexistent noses, and famously enormous eyes, as "Japanese." Unless the characters are clearly identified as foreign, Japanese readers see them as Japanese, and most would be surprised to learn that so many foreigners react differently.
Foreigners often seem to view manga drawing styles as an indication that the Japanese have an inferiority complex towards the West and long to be "White." I disagree. Japanese may feel ambivalence about the West, as well as about their own "Asianness," but they also often display a strong streak of nationalism. As difficult as it may be for non-Japanese to accept, I think the perception of manga by foreigners usually tells us more about the prejudices of those foreigners than it does about those of the Japanese people who create and enjoy manga."
"Since I was not paying too much attention to the whole Dragonball Evolution topic. And, honestly, by no means... is it a great movie, it isn't really watchable either. And, really I'm not here to defend it.
But in the argument against the fact that you think that Goku is japanese...
I beg to differ---Check this out:
If you've ever seen a japanese guy... or any asian guy that has blonde hair and blue eyes... just slap him... cause if that doesn't look as ridiculous and just plain laughable.... I don't know what does... "
Er...you can't apply anime fantasy to reality. That's where you make the first mistake. In anime, the characters have colors of the rainbow as hair, such as Shampoo from Ranma 1/2(who is a CHINESE Amazon)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shampoo_and_Shampoo_as_Cat.jpg, or Michiru Kaioh from Sailormoon:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Sailorneptune.jpg, who has teal/green hair.
You can't form a case here because blonde hair is simply one of the extraordinary colors that Japanese creators give their characters to add to their uniqueness.