Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Shinigami64 on June 11, 2010 at 12:18pm

No one is arguing here but you. I asked what people thought, and when necessary I further explained myself and my view on matters. If you didn't have any thoughts, then you didn't have to comment. And you don't get to dictate the nature every conversation. That's just how things work out. When I joined this group, I never thought that such an issue would arise in the first place. But here it is, and I'm not gonna ignore it because you don't want to talk about it out of fear that some feelings may get hurt. That already happened when the casting calls were publicized and the cast was announced. Have you considered how many people have been offended by that, and how many of those people are longtime fans of this series?

Simply put, speaking in any forum about this is not the problem. Ignoring it and thinking that any good will come from that is...

Permalink Reply by Badman3000 aka H.N.I.C on June 11, 2010 at 9:50pm

Whatever do whatever the hell you guys want I really could careless.
All I ask is no cursing or flaming of each other.

Permalink Reply by Stephan on June 11, 2010 at 10:26pm

Well that's good, because no one was doing that anyway.

Permalink Reply by Stephan on June 12, 2010 at 8:16am

...Correction. The flaming has started.

Permalink Reply by Cinema Dr. AJ on June 11, 2010 at 8:07pm

Badman3000 has just won the internet. We can all log off now. Thanks for playing guys!

Permalink Reply by moviedork on June 10, 2010 at 6:12pm

It's just a movie that's not based on any race to begin with.

I hope Shymalan can bring justice to the franchise, he hasn't had a hit in a while.

Permalink Reply by Stephan on June 10, 2010 at 8:46pm

It's just a movie that's not based on any race to begin with.

No, it's not STEEPED in Asian culture or anything. It's not like that's an integral part of the show at all.

/sarcasm

Permalink Reply by Shinigami64 on June 10, 2010 at 9:02pm

A lot of people say things like this, but that doesn't make it true. The world these characters inhabit is distinctly Asian. We all know that, and there's no denying it. Now, compare this to Lord of the Rings, a world based in Anglo-Saxon mythology. Now picture a black Gandalf. Doesn't work, does it? The world of the narrative informs us about the people that live in it, and an Asian world would have Asian people. So the characters have an ethnicity, and that's why this claim is inaccurate.

More specifically, this claim doesn't make any more sense of the casting. If anything, it only makes it worse. If the characters didn't have an ethnicity, exactly how the hell does that make them (the 3 main heroes specifically) white? The answer is both depressing and insulting because it's based in the mentality that white is the default. That makes white people a blank slate, raceless, or worse yet: normal. With that kind of thinking, what does that make non-white people?

Permalink Reply by moviedork on June 12, 2010 at 12:23pm

Let's wait until the actual film comes out. If most critics are loving this movie, will you still boycott it? Let's wait until it comes out before judging the film.

Permalink Reply by Shinigami64 on June 13, 2010 at 4:15am

While I do have my suspicions, I don't want you to think I've already decided that the movie is unquestionably bad. My disapproval has less to do with quality of the film and more to do with the institutional and incidental racism practiced by Paramount. For THAT reason, this movie can fuck off...

Permalink Reply by Shinigami64 on June 29, 2010 at 4:00am

IT wasnt and Asian Setting. You never gave a bit of proof to me that the whole world was asian.

Besides the illustrations and descriptions from the creators of the show...

Asian background was refering to the (Written Language), Clothes and Martial Arts. It gave a Chinese feel to it.

I see where this is going, and it's REALLY misguided...

So you can truly believe the martial arts were adhesive to the story. Thats y it looks like old Asia. Martial arts worked back there. That was it. If you truley mean what you just said, then you would believe that Katara and Sokka are Chinese too. Dont consider them different because they are darker, unlike Aang who is just whiter.

Yep, you're equating Asian with Chinese. Even worse, you're clinging to the misconception that Asian (including Chinese) people aren't widely varied in complexion. I'll try to remember to touch on that later...

You completely ignored my pigmate debate. Your just responding now to what you think you can give a truly valiant respond too.

No, I didn't. I just pointed out the flaw in the logic behind it, but now I see why you think I was dismissive. You think "Asian" only includes China...

Each nation/tribe contributed to a different race. Thats y they all looked different by color.

There's a very obvious flaw to this train of thought. In the show, the "G-Aang" hid in cities all over the Earth Kingdom and in the Fire Nation despite only one of them (Toph) being an Earth Kingdom native and NONE of them being Fire Nation. That wouldn't be possible if the nations were representative of different races...

The whole chinese connection was shown throughout the show in the Earth Kingdom, which is the biggest kingdom throughout the show. Evan in the Water season, they were mostly in the Earth Kingdom, so you saw Chinese words and clothing, and food. But in the third season where they moved into Fire territory, you started seeing Japanese clothing and food. In the very first episode, Iroh was telling zuko he was eating, gavilta fish. Which is a Japanese, not Chinese dish. Just because it uses Chinese martial arts dosent make everybody Chinese or Asian.

There's a reason why I tend to quote users in my responses to their posts. I don't want anyone to think that I'm misconstruing or altering your words. This is what you said, and this is my response. Simple as that.

This passage is solid evidence to my suspicion that you, Sumilidon have somehow conflated Asian with ONLY Chinese. This kills your position on this matter because it's coming from an uninformed place. All I'll say is this for starters: Japan is a part of Asia too. You gotta reconfigure things, dude.

This isnt our world. Its a different one where different races know different martial arts(bending).

I definitely specified that the setting is a fantasy world, but it is an Asian fantasy world constructed solely from Asian myths and cultures in the same way that Lord of the Rings, Willow, Chronicles of Narnia, and the like are constructed from Medieval European cultures and myths. Those worlds are inhabited by characters that reflect the cultural basis, and so too is the case with Avatar. To do anything else wouldn't be cultural appreciation anymore. It becomes cultural appropriation...

I heard throughout the site that you were a douche bag. But I thought that was only said beacuse you have a great mind and you like to debate. But now I know.

No...you don't. You came into this with the wrong way of thinking from the start. Maybe now that this "Asian=/= only Chinese culture" thing is a bit more clear, you might come back to this discussion with a different outlook. Either way, I never attacked you. I never insulted you. What I did do was respond to your questions with straight-forward, honest answers. If you want flaming, check out Cinema Dr. AJ's posts in this thread. I don't edit myself because when it comes right down to it, I said what I said and I have to own up to that one way or another. Consider your sources when people judge someone they don't ACTUALLY know...

You respond mean like and so negetivly when somebody says their own opinion without having an open mind for yourself.

Well, to be fair, your question is nothing new in this discussion. I didn't sugarcoat my response, but I certainly didn't insult your intelligence in the reply. At least, that wasn't the intention. I didn't use any exclamation points, and my use of CAPS is for emphasis in cases where I didn't feel like using bold or italics (or didn't have the time to go back and do it).

If you were offended, sorry about that. But I don't back off from any of the substance of my posts.

Like your right and its gonna stay that way no matter what.

Well, yeah...unless I'm wrong.

Respond nicer next time. Maybe Im right, because i know alot about this subject matter too. Your not the only person who knows about this.

Not to rain on your parade, but this response doesn't support this claim due to a MAJOR oversight. Like i said, gotta reconfigure...

And no, not on this issue. We don't owe each other cuddly responses as much as we do honesty (even if it's from our own perspective), which can't always be nicely stated. It's entirely possible to refrain from insulting one another, and I definitely do that. But addressing bigotry in flowery language ain't my thing, and it never will be...

And by the way, the guy who plays Aang, IS half Asian.

Now, this is just a lie that people defending the movie have crafted in an attempt to dismiss the very real missteps in the casting process. Mind you, when Paramount responded to MANAA (Media Action Network for Asian Americans) to quell the shit-storm over the casting, they cited cast members as follows:

"Early casting includes an Indian actor, born in Mumbai and raised in the UK and the US; a Persian actor born in Tehran and raised in the UK, Switzerland and the US; a Maori actor born and raised in New Zealand; a Korean-American actor, born and raised in Chicago; an American actress of Italian, French and Mexican heritage; among several others of varied nationalities from around the world."

Nowhere in that passage is a half-Asian lead mentioned because Noah Ringer is NOT half-Asian (the only logical conclusion). I can post the entire letter, and you'll never find any mention of Noah Ringer. The fact of the matter is that the producers of this film had EVERYTHING to gain from stating if Ringer is in fact half-Asian. If it were true, then that would pretty much do away with the complaint from Asian activists like MANAA. That would appease pretty much all of the protesters, but they didn't mention the star of their $280 million film. What does that tell you...?

Permalink Reply by Shinigami64 on July 2, 2010 at 9:55am

Dude. You didnt listen to anything I said.

Okay, now you're just lying.

Chinease culture is Chinease culture. If you go to China right now, I promise you will see some black people white people and of course Asian.

And? Avatar: The Last Airbender is based on ancient Asian culture. And for the last time, that DOES NOT mean "only Chinese."

Explain Katara and Sokka? You never did.

NO, you weren't paying attention. I've used the terms "Pan-Asian" and "Inuit" so many times in this discussion that I don't feel like going back to check if I specifically used them in response to you. If they came up at all in this thread, you still would have no basis for debate seeing as how you obviously didn't read anything before you sounded off. So let me state this for certain: Sokka, Katara, and the Northern and Southern Water tribes are very obviously based on Inuit and Yupik culture which is NOT European in origin at all. Let's keep it movin'...

You just keep bringing up the same argument about Chinease Culture.

You incorrectly read it that way. And for future reference, there is no "a" in the word "Chinese."

And my response to that is that the written language, clothing, and food were all chinease. That was to make the use of Martial arts more authentic.

In your opinion, but where is the factual proof to back that statement? One can find countless examples of Konietzko and DiMartino speaking of how they wanted to create a fantasy world based on Asian cultures instead of European cultures. So where are YOU getting this claim that they only researched "Chinese" culture for the sake of the martial arts aspect of the show? Are you not aware of how much more than that stems from Asian cultures in the show...?

If you make a movie based on African Culture, does that mean everyone in it is Native African. No.

If the goal is to appropriate that culture, then you'd be right. However, if you based a movie or television show on African culture and placed non-Africans at the center of it, that would make you pretty dumb for not expecting the inevitable backlash at the least...

You need to rethink the meaning of the word culture. It means default lifestyle.

No, it doesn't...

Main Entry: cul·ture
Pronunciation: \ˈkəl-chər\
Function: noun
5 a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic

You've been using that word the wrong way...

And I also said, look at the other tribes then just Earth. Water lives in the poles. Eskimos are mostly darkend color. Not Asian.

Wrong again. Inuit and Yupik people (the two groups of Eskimos) are also Asian.

Fire nation was said by DeMartino to be based off Japanese lifestyles and the air nomads are just nomads.

Japan is in Asia, the Air Nomads are based on Tibetan and Shaolin monks. You've gotten nothing correct so far, and you're on the internet. You could find this stuff on your own...

You are argueing an unvalid point.

That's not even a word...

Have you ever seen Asians as dark as Katara or Sokka.

One: that's a question. Two: yes I have. Just look for images of Inuit, Yupik, or even some Thai or Mongolian people. You probably won't so

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eco.metra/VDC2007-8/CM1%20-%20Lafaille/Images/Inuit/inuit_pierrick.jpg

And even if there is, do you really expect them to put that in the show and expect the average viewer to take those small neuonses seriously and take them as Asian. Do you really believe that? Do you truely believe that thats what they were trying to express with the major pigment changes between tribes.

Plenty of viewers were able to put that together. Just not you, but I'm seeing why that is...

Come on. Katara and Sokka arnt asian or white. And Aang isnt Asian either. Sorry if this sounds like Im attacking you. Im just very emotional about this subject like you. *Sniff*

Out of curiosity: are you Asian? If not, what do you identify as?

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