If it's crap ... We'll tell you
Ok, to all the Trekies out there, this discussion is simply to fire away any theory's you have about the new Star Trek film coming out next year, and where you want the series to go.
Because I have so much to type, I will put all of my theory's and opinions in the comment section. Write your ideas freely and let me know :)
Live long and prosper...
First things first, I am with many people who think the villain in Star Trek into darkness (played by Benedict Cumberbatch) will be Gary Mitchell, a character from the original series (similar to how they used Khan in Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan). They have already released the name of Cumberbatch's character, John Harrison (a character who DOESN'T appear in Star Trek lore) but im still not convinced. There has been so much secrecy about this film, that it's just hard to believe that they waited so long to tell us who this guy will be, only to let us know that he will simply be a made up character for the film. The trailers and details revealed clearly show that Harrison will be related to Starfleet, just like the character Gary Mitchell. Also, Karl Urban (who plays the character Bones) let it slip that Cumberbatch will be playing Mitchell, but that's still "unconfirmed".
Also, another fan theory is that Cumberbatch will be playing a younger version of Khan. The tone of this film and the "personal vendetta, revenge" theme looks very similar to the one in Wrath of Khan. And the character Carol Marcus will appear, who had a strong role in Wrath of Khan. I would prefer the Khan character to be left alone since he is so memorable, but, it's still a good theory. But, if Benedict Cumberbatch's character really is simply a made up character for this film, I will be very dissapointed, simply because of all the hype, and the long wait. Also, I think having the villain be another character from the old series would be a GREAT idea, and I think it would be a missed opportunity if they didn't go that direction.
As for the film itself, one thing I noticed in the trailers that really stood out to me was the shot of Kirk putting his hand against glass, with someone in a blue shirt behind it (again, an obvious nod to Star Trek 2). Obviously, fans are wondering if this meens Spock will die again (after all, Zachary Quinto DID state he might be done for the role, so maybe this is what he meant). And let's not forget that this current film series takes place in an alternate timeline, so maybe the roles are revearsed, could Kirk be the one who dies? Also, it's merely ASSUMPTION that the character in the blue shirt is Spock. Could that be someone else who just dies in a similar manner, Bones, maybe? Remember, this series isn't a straight forward prequel, it's an alternate timeline, which meens they can pretty much do anything they WANT in this movie series. After all, this is made by the same guys who destroyed Vulcan...
Anyways, I really liked the reboot (although I always thought it should have had a full title, like Star Trek: Genesis, or something like that, lol) point is, I hope this film series lasts as long as it can, or at LEAST a trilogy. As for television, I want another TV series in another timeline with a new captain, played by a girl, and as a romulan (or any alien, just not human). They tried that before, but it didn't work, but I hope they try that again. Anyways, I can't wait for Star Trek into Darkness, and I REALLY hope it's good.
Please comment and share your own ideas :)
I grew up watching Voyager for the series and the Next Generation movies, so I don't really care for the original series as much. Aside from the films the original series is very dated and I don't care for Kirk that much. I do love Spock, but I feel that the later stuff misuses Vulcans, such as Enterprise or the reboot film which make them jerks. I also had problems with the reboot film and felt it was very lackluster for Trek. I honestly am not expecting this movie to be that great because I don't really like what I am seeing. Too many trench coats, generic monologues as well as silly action shots mostly. Also not a big Abrams fan beyond Lost. I do hope it is good, but I am not keeping my hopes up. Would prefer a new TV series though.
Now as for the plot I do have a theory. Klingons were shown in a picture and the first trailer, unless it is some hoax. My best guess is that the villain sold out the federation to the Klingons. If it is truly Gary Mitchell in some form, then he will use his psychic powers to lay waist to the headquarters on earth, crippling the Federation and allowing the Klingons to invade. If not, then he might be a former officer who uses his insider knowledge of Federation intelligence to sell them out. In return the Klingons will give him earth or a new Federation to rule as he sees fit as a puppet ruler, or maybe he just wants to see earth burn. His character might have been a former officer who was discharged, but his obsessions drive him to seek revenge. His outfit looks a little like a uniform.
My other theory is the opposite of sorts. With Vulcan destroyed, the Klingons decide that the Federation is now weak since it has lost a key world and have launched an invasion to capitalize on this. Cumberlatch's character, a disgraced figure of the Federation, is the only one who can help them stop it, but at a terrible price. He helps them defeat the Klingons but then turns on his own, seizing the chaos to take over.
The hand scene is reminiscent of Khan, but I am wondering if they might do the opposite. Instead of Spock being in the dangerous room, maybe this time it is Kirk. Kirk's hand looks weaker in that shot than Spock's but maybe it is due to the angle. It looks like the arm might be coming from the floor or he is turned around. Instead of Spock doing the "needs of the many" line, maybe it is Kirk giving himself up for the lives of his crew. After all, he is the captain.
Yeah, that's one thing I thought too. The scene with the hands could very possibly be flipped, with Kirk as the one who dies. I know it's all fan speculation, but hey, it's fun!
And since you didn't like the original series it doesn't surprise me that you didn't like the reboot. It's just not for everyone. And although I do agree with you that the visuals for the new one shown in the trailers are pretty generic, I LOVED the narrarations, especially the one by Bruce Greenwood. I just thought the "humility" speech was very intriguing and "Star Trekish". Also, the part where Cumberbatch says "what would you not do to save your family?" shows that this will be very personal for the villain as well. Also, the makers have stated this film won't really be a "black and white, good vs. evil" movie, it will be very "character driven." I just like that stuff, lol.
And since Klingons weren't really used in the Star Trek reboot (and since they are confirmed to appear in the next one) it wouldn't surprise me if the Klingons have a large part in the plot. The question is, where will their allegiance be?
Anyways, great post!
It's not really that I don't like the original series, it's just that I did not grow up with it. I grew up on Voyager and Enterprise, with some Next Gen here and there. It was not until later that I saw the original series, and due to being raised in a different generation I could not get into it. The fluctuation in quality was also weird as some episodes were classics, but many were atrocious. I think it is something you had to grow up with as it is a product of its time. That being said I do think Wrath of Khan is the best movie. DS9 is probably my favorite series, though I have seen that the least of all of them.
My problems with the reboot are generally due to the horrible villain who came off as a rehash of Shinzon from Nemesis, as both are brooding doomsday villains but were uninteresting, and given little or no character development beyond "I'm Evil". They also took some weird liberties like making Spock and Uhura an item, which just seems out of place. I also didn't like Kirk, as he was just a big jerk. I know the original Kirk had some cockiness to him, but he was old enough to have earned it, and was not nearly at this level of obnoxious. This one just seemed to cause trouble and be rewarded for it anyway.
I like the second trailer as it had a different narration from the first one. It was about Kirk instead of some vague villain posturing. They keep hyping up the villain, but it doesn't work for me because they also refuse to give details about him. It worked with the Joker because there is already a mythos behind that character, but this one I cannot care about. I honestly feel they should give some more details so that I do care.
Geez, I'm starting to sound like a nitpicky Trekkie. On to more speculation. I do think the trailers are likely tricking us about someone dieing. Considering the film industry, I am not sure if they are ballsy enough to kill Kirk. If they are going to kill anyone, it is likely Carol Marcus.
I am also wondering if the scenes with the Klingons are a prison break or rescue mission of some sort. There is that guy who is jumping around taking out Klingons, and then reveals himself to Kirk. Maybe Kirk was captured, botched the escape, or came to take him himself. Considering how little the Klingons are featured in the trailers beyond the scenes in the same set, I am wondering if they do not play a major role, and are a sort of side obstacle for the real menace.
As much as I am complaining about the marketing, I guess it is working considering how much speculation I am putting into it. You're right, speculation is fun!
As a matter of fact, im 16 years old, I obviously didn't grow up with the original series, lol. That being said, I didn't grow up with ANYTHING Star Trek related, so I didn't have your perspective (being raised on one version then being moved to another). But, I LOVE old school stuff, so I eventually started following the Star Trek franchise several years ago. Don't get me wrong, I like Next Generation too. Actually, Original series and Next Generation are the only versions I HAVE liked. The other Star Trek shows just don't work for me.
My favorite Star Trek films for me personally would be Wrath of Khan, First Contact and the reboot. I would say the worst is Final Frontier, and the most dissapointing ones are EASILY The motion Picture and Generations. Those had good ideas, but were ultimately wasted opportunities.
As for our views on the reboot, I think that's simply different opinions. I don't think the villain was as terrible as you thought, I thought he had enough back story to beilieve him as a villain, and posed enough threat too. That being said, he wasn't memorable at all, and I hope Cumberbatch will be a much more memorable villain, and it looks like he might be (so far). As for Kirk, I don't think he was quite as big a jerk as you. Looking at the character in the original series, how he was portrayed in the reboot was exactly how I imagined a younger naive Kirk would be, so I was fine. And I personally liked Spock and Uhura together. Thinking of their personalities, I think their relationship just works. But again, that's just a different opinion and view.
As for Carol Marcus dying, that's a good theory. I havn't thought of that at all. It would definately be a good way to mess with the alternate reality.
Finally, in response to this "Iron Man" guy, I don't think this series has become a stupid action series at all. I thought the reboot was smart, had a GOOD STORY, was emotional, and simply had a strong script. It's definately one of the best time travel films I have ever seen.
Anyways, I can't wait for Star Trek into Darkness, and the ONLY problem I had with the reboot was that the villain just wasn't memorable. He was cool and had a good back story, but that's about it, mostly generic. Cumberbatch, however, looks like he will be a really strong villain (and in the trailer he is DEFINATELY whering a Starfleet uniform in the shot with him on the Enterprise) and the "what would you not do to save your family?" line immediately makes me think he has depth. But, as of now, I can only hope this film succedes.
And to all the haterts out there, we have ONLY seen two small teaser trailers (and the prologue to few) RELAX, and wait for more of the film revealed, lol.
You make a lot of good points. All I meant by being exposed to the originals was that you probably had to be exposed to them early or before some of the others. My parents and friends always talked a big game about them, and by the time I finally got to see them I couldn't quite "get it". I had seen all the other Star Trek stuff and I probably saw the originals last, so it didn't quite have the same punch I think. I do respect them as classics though. I can't really think of a good example to describe the feeling. I had built them up in my head but when I finally saw them they came off as campy and didn't meet my expectations. They definitely weren't bad though.
While I grew up on Voyager and Enterprise, and liked them when I was young, I do realize now that they were VERY flawed series. When I got cable I finally got to see some more Next Gen and I really got into it. DS9 I managed to catch here and there because my dad was a huge fan and taped a bunch of the good episodes. I think I like it the best because I like Babylon 5 a lot too and there is some overlap between the two. You should check out SF Debris. He is an internet reviewer who analyzes all things Trek and other Sci-Fi stuff. He also gives some history on how episodes were created too, and some of the drama is interesting.
As for the reboot, you make a good point about young Kirk vs older Kirk. I am wondering if it is a case of maybe I didn't want to see a young Kirk because that kind of personality can strike some people the wrong way, especially when it is coming from someone that youthful. I think my problem with Nero is that he is forgettable. He also didn't really come off as a Romulan either. He could have been a Klingon and would have largely been the same character. When I think Romulans, I think manipulators. As for the Spock and Uhura thing, it was just weird to me. It didn't add to the experience but it didn't take away from it either. Its a "your mileage may vary" thing, and it really doesn't bug me too badly. I also wonder if maybe the whole "youth" thing turned me off. This is probably the youngest crew in all of Trek, when in most of the series the captains were middle aged and had a decorated history doing other things. It was an emergency situation, but he is too young to have been awarded captain at that point. I don't know. It either bugs you or doesn't.
I am glad you enjoyed the film. The world needs more Trek and I am glad there are younger Trekkies. For a while the franchise was more or less dead and the best compliment I can give the reboot is that it helped renew interest in Star Trek. I would prefer to see a new series though. The films are great, but Star Trek I think works best in an episodic format. I always saw it as a science fiction anthology series and each episode was a different short story. If one didn't work, wait a week and that episode could be great. If Battlestar Galactica can be revived into a praised long-running series, then Star Trek can too.
One thing that Chris Pine and JJ Abrams both said is that the character Kirk will truley earn his position as captain in Star Trek into Darkness, so I am interested in how that will play out, and how many choices Kirk will have to make and sacrifice.
And although I do love a few of the films, I do agree that Star Trek works better as a series. The new Battlestar Glactica got it right, but when the original series came out, it was originally MADE to be a movie. But, they were only able to make a TV show. And even though it only lasted one season, it still felt kind of drawn out. The whole premise was "Point A to Point B" so it just didn't work as a series originally. Star Trek, however, is specifically exploration, so the show can last pretty much as long as the ideas can.
And I agree, since the new Battlestar Galactica fixed the problems of the original (although I do still like the original) they made a strong long-lasting series. But if they could do it, I don't see WHY Star Trek can't.
My theory is they will continue to be stupid action movies with no real consideration to story.
That is pretty much why I'm not trying to keep my hopes up. They at least have Lindelof on the writing so hopefully it can be good, but then again he can do bad work like Prometheus and then yell "not my fault". Honestly, I think they are trying to appeal to the action/special effects crowd but are alienating the devoted fandom.