The Last Airbender

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Permalink Reply by Tommy on May 23, 2009 at 1:11pm

By trying to make the movie inclusive of all cultures, the filmmakers have made this offensive to you. If they casted a white/black actor (or whatever) to play a real, historical Asian figure, I could see how you might be offended. However, while heavily influenced by eastern history/culture/philosophies/etc., this cartoon created a fantasy world that established the existence of four nations divided within it. While many characters in the show have Asian features, many do not. The character designs for those in each nation were very diverse and encompassed many different races despite the shows influences. Therefore, when making a live action film, it makes sense to also have characters that are inclusive of all cultures. If you are offended by this, that is you right. However, I find this attitude a bit closed minded and offensive. Now, I don’t say this to start an argument or flame. I’m just responding with my take on the issue of this film’s casting that you brought up.

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Permalink Reply by Tommy on May 23, 2009 at 2:28pm

(When I came back, I noticed some of my response was missing, so I’ll repost. Sorry.)

By trying to make the movie inclusive of all cultures, the filmmakers have made this offensive to you. If they casted a white/black actor (or whatever) to play a real, historical Asian figure, I could see how you might be offended. However, while heavily influenced by eastern history/culture/philosophies/etc., this cartoon created a fantasy world that established the existence of four nations divided within it. While many characters in the show have Asian features, many do not. The character designs for those in each nation were very diverse and encompassed many different races despite the shows influences. Therefore, when making a live action film, it makes sense to also have characters that are inclusive of all cultures. As a result of this choice, we have a darker skinned Zuko and a light skinned Aang, and I don’t see the problem. Those who do, in my opinion, are only looking to draw some parallel to some perceived racism in the real world. The fire nation isn’t bad in the show, at least that’s what I thought. It was simply under the control of a bad ruler. Also, Zuko and Iroh are never portrayed as evil or bad. Iroh is depicted as one of the wisest characters, simply trying to help the misguided Zuko. They were never villains, just rivals. So, if the movie follows these themes from the first season, I don’t think you can say it’s depicting dark skinned people as the evil villains. Also, Zuko is a hero by the end. So, if the movies follow the story and character development, we will never view him as bad. Therefore, you won’t have this white makes dark good scenario you have all ready established for the movie. If you are offended by this, that is you right. However, I find this attitude a bit closed minded and offensive. Now, I don’t say this to start an argument or flame. I’m just responding with my take on the issue of this film’s casting that you brought up.

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Permalink Reply by rokrok on May 24, 2009 at 3:57am

I am the one being closed-minded?
I offended you?
I think Hollywood is the one being closed-minded.
Why can't Hollywood be open to Asian/Inuit heroes?

So you think Media Action Network for Asian Americans and East West Players
are looking to draw some parallel to some perceived racism in the real world?

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Permalink Reply by Tommy on May 24, 2009 at 6:36pm

Yes, I think it’s narrow minded to come to a conclusion that revolves around race so early on. And yes, I get offended when people accuse others of racial discrimination in situations where there is no such intent. As I said in my post, while heavily influenced by eastern history/culture/philosophies/etc., this cartoon created a fantasy world that established the existence of four nations where the character designs for those in each were very diverse and encompassed many different races (not just Asian). So, when casting the live action counterparts, you can have a cast whose features are inclusive of different races. If that means some of the main characters look white or Indian (like Aang and Zuko), this is acceptable within the designs. So, MANAA arguing that the filmmakers aren’t keeping the integrity of the show intact because the main characters aren’t Asian isn’t a strong one.

Also, the comment “draw some parallel to some perceived racism in the real world” is not me stating there isn’t racism in the world. It was used to describe those looking for a problem within the guidelines of this movie’s casting decision.

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Permalink Reply by rokrok on May 25, 2009 at 6:00am

I agree that the character designs were very diverse.
(the diversity within Asia)
I saw Japanese, Koreans, and Polynesians in the Earth Kingdom,
Japanese and Chinese in the Fire Nation,
Chinese in the Air Nation,
and Native-American, Inuit, and even Filipino in the Water Tribe.
The only Indian in the universe was The Guru.
To me, that's diversity. (especially, in a predominantly white media)
If those specific races were portrayed in the live action,
instead of just clumping them all in 1 nation (Earth Kingdom),
then the film would show all the beautiful shades of "yellow" and "brown".
And it would open the minds of all the ignorant kids' narrow-minded views of what makes a person "Asian".

You say that some of the characters encompass many different races.
Can you specify?
If its ok for the producers to change the Inuit race of the Water Tribe to a Caucasian race,
why don't they change the Earth Bending style to boxing and the Fire Bending style to wrestling?
Which water tribesman had features of a typical All-American White Boy?
Did any of the characters' names include Andy, Steve, Kathy, Tiffany, or Zach?
Did anyone on Kyoshi Island not resemble Japanese? That island was Japanese all the way down to the martial art practiced (Aikido) by the Kyoshi Warriors.
Or why don't they change the dragons to look more like the traditional European dragons?
Or why don't they include Christian religions?
If its so diverse, where are the Africans and Latino characters?

I still don't know who could possibly be a non-Asian and non-Inuit character
in the entire Avatar universe. I guess I don't have the privilege of being colorblind.

This is where we have to agree to disagree.
I feel that MANAA's argument is a strong one.
If it was not strong enough, then why didn't Paramount Pictures set up a meeting with MANAA? If the argument was weak, Then wouldn't it be easy to rebuttal? Paramount didn't even reply back.
If the integrity of the show was still intact,
why haven't we heard from the creators of the show, Mike and Bryan?
They used to go to all the conventions promoting the show.

If the show was heavily influenced by African history/culture/philosophies/etc,
would it be ok to cast all the heroes Caucasian and all the villains Africans?
It should be ok, according to Paramount Pictures's definition of "diversity".

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Permalink Reply by Tommy on May 25, 2009 at 12:50pm

When creating the four nations to be inclusive of all cultures, multiple groups of people are going to be lumped into one nation, and mixed in with others. This isn’t done as some sort of way to undermine any group of people. It is a necessity given the number of nations. In terms of characters, many had features that made them racially ambiguous. For instance, this includes the main characters like (Aang, Sokka, and Katara), as well as many characters within the nations. As I said in my first post, Asian featured characters were highly prominent, but were mixed with non-Asian featured characters. This made the character designs rich and inclusive. If you want me to name all the non-Asian, racially ambiguous looking characters, you are going to have to give me a chance, as the show had a number of character designs.

So, with racially ambiguous characters, you have room to interpret each nation’s characteristics. Therefore, the integrity of show isn’t put in jeopardy. If they completely changed the influence from eastern history/culture/philosophies/etc., such as the examples you gave (change the fighting style to boxing), then it would ruin the integrity of the show. This, then, would be something for MANAA to get up in arms about.

In terms of meeting with MANAA, of course Paramount is going to meet with them. Why would they write them off? That would only increase the tension. They probably want to meet with them to discuss why the casting decision makes sense, and is in no way meant to be discrimination. The creators of the show are probably not commenting publically because they are working on the film. However, I’m sure they would be involved in the discussions with MANAA. It wouldn’t be beneficial for them to address the issue publically until they talk with the group first.

“I don’t have the privilege of being colorblind’. Why do you say that? No one should be colorblind. We should embrace our diversity, and work to undo years of learning that has allowed racism to exist. The term colorblind has always been a term used by those trying to divert attention from racial problems. So, it’s not a privilege to be colorblind. Your slick comment about being colorblind came off a bit smug.

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Permalink Reply by rokrok on May 25, 2009 at 2:25pm

So, again, you failed to prove that the characters could be white.
You say that Aang, Katara, and Sokka could be white.
My kids and I watched all 3 seasons several times
and we didn't notice any non-Asian featured characters.
I still don't see how the Water Tribe could be white.
The creators of the show stated in a commentary that Katara is Inuit.
If we watched each episode and pick at all the characters that may have non-Asian features, I am sure the characters would be in the background.
And if that's the case, why would they reverse that in the live action adaptation?
Could it be possible that Paramount Pictures practices
"The Possessive Investment in Whiteness"?
(which is also the name of a book by George Lipsitz
on how white people profit from identity politics)

My "colorblind" comment was just referring to Ursula K. Le Guin's quote,
"I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what color the people in the story are. Don't notice, don't care. Whites of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "colorblind." Nobody else does."

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Permalink Reply by Tommy on May 25, 2009 at 6:39pm

I’m not naming them because, like I said, there are a lot of secondary character designs. Therefore, I stuck with the main characters that have these ambiguous features, as our attention is focused mainly on them. Also, I didn’t say those character were white. I said they were racially ambiguous. And yes, the water tribe has Inuit ties. I never tried to deny the influences each nation has with a specific Asian culture or heritage. My point has always been that the characters’ appearances fall into this racial ambiguity. Therefore, I felt having an inclusive live action cast and nations made up of various ethnicities would work. As a result, I think this attack on Paramount is a bit harsh, as they aren’t a part of some underhanded plot to degrade the integrity of the show’s cultural influences or the viability of Asian leads. Also, if the features of the cast are important, why haven’t the creators been questioned more about why main characters (like Aang/Sokka/Katara) didn’t have more prominent features that would clearly identify them with their nation’s racial ties? Also, why wasn’t the voice cast called into question, as a lot of main characters weren’t voiced by Asian actors? I mean, if we are going to attack the live action film for being discriminatory, the show had some questionable decisions as well.

Also, like I said in a previous post, I don’t deny racial discrimination. Within our country’s society (are we from the same country?), there is still a certain amount of white privilege. However, this privilege is not the fault of all individuals who have white skin, nor is it that of countries whose population largely consists of those with white skin. By clumping white skinned people together as you do, you are just as guilty as those you say try to homogenize the varying Asian cultures.

Permalink Reply by Matt on May 23, 2009 at 12:55pm

Please tell me how Ang is Asian.

Looks pretty white to me.

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Permalink Reply by Iron Man on May 23, 2009 at 3:30pm

I already posted that.

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Permalink Reply by Matt on May 23, 2009 at 4:00pm

I guess I should read the thread before I post.

I saw the first post and then went straight to google. lol

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Permalink Reply by rokrok on May 24, 2009 at 3:03am

Please tell me how Sokka is white.

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