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Permalink Reply by Rabid Scotsman on February 21, 2010 at 8:56pm

First of all, the ending was brilliant! That last line of the film is still in my mind.
The thing that gave everything away was right in the beginning of the film, although secretive. When Teddy's partner is forced to hand over his gun, he has an extremely hard time taking it off. Any real U.S Marshall would not have that problem with that simple task and he also did not act like a real U.S Marshall either.
The film has been bashed really hard and have no idea why.

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on February 21, 2010 at 8:59pm

Oh right I remember that. I hated walking out of the theater thinking it was a brilliant movie and people around me going how they don't get it and some old couple was talking about how bad it was.

I really hate to use the "you didn't get it then" argument but seriously.. people bashing this didn't get it.

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Permalink Reply by Ender on February 22, 2010 at 4:08pm

Yeah I loved this film to, but I think the ending could have been tighter. I'll explain...

As you have pointed out, in the last scene Andrew/Teddy has that existential dilemma between either being the 'good man' or 'the monster'. I find most people leaning towards Andrew/Teddy being sane, and choosing to get the lobotomy to rid the world (and himself) of the monster that is Andrew. As they mentioned earlier, the lobotomy will essentially turn him into a 'zombie', becoming more docile and easier to control.

My issue with Andrew choosing the lobotomy, and therefore essentially choosing to 'die', is that he recognized his past actions as wrong yet does not want to fix his character. If he recognizes the monster he was, than he has the ability to change. Andrew could have chosen to adopt the good traits that he displayed as Teddy and secured some amount of redemption. The lobotomy becomes the easy way out: instead of facing his demons, he opts for 'suicide'.

What bothered me about the end, is that moment before the final scene, he sits in his room and admits to who he is and what he had done: he says his real name, tells why he killed his wife, and why he made up Teddy Daniels (and the other hallucinations). It just seems that time is wasted, as that scene in his room could have been the scene where he chooses the lobotomy, and his realization of reality could have been pushed backed to the scene in the lighthouse.

Of course, Scorsese is the director, and probably knows a little more about making a film then I do (lol). I just can't convince myself either way. I think it boils down to this: if he was sane and chooses the lobotomy, than I don't like his decision. Actually, as I'm typing this, I find myself struggling with my feelings about the film. Either way, I still loved it.

@Rabid Scotsman: When Chuck handed over that gun, I turned to my girlfriend and laughed saying "what kind of US Marshall can't handle his gun". *Duh* lol.

More thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on February 22, 2010 at 11:15pm

The scene in the room is the scene where Dr. Cawley explains his relapse 9 months ago and here's my take on what goes in that scene and why he relapses back into Teddy Daniels.

The ultimate issue with Andrew's choice is that he believes that his children's death is his fault which is explained throughout the movie. That breakthrough then and 9 months before that are both incomplete in a sense where the doctor only gets Teddy back to Andrew and to point zero where he is still traumatized. Andrew reconfirms his details and viewers are given clear details on what happened then and why he "chose" to escape reality and pretty much forget all the details of his trauma (not the jewish concentration camp one but with his children). He needed (if I may put it so elegantly) a "Good Will Hunting" moment where the professor gets through Will that all that "shit isn't his fault" and that's what ultimately turns him back to Teddy.

I can see and empathize with Andrew here since you can see in his flashback that he comes back after few days of avoiding his mentally unstable wife and makes up an excuse as he's walking in by telling her right then "how busy it's been" (which is what people do when they lie: they cannot wait to tell the lie even tho nobody asked about it). The avoiding part is also explained by Dr. Cawley and I can see where he blames himself since he didn't take care of his wife and that ultimately lead to losing his children (he also shot his wife so that's his fault but I would've done the same). I am not even really on the fence about it: I would blame myself for 3 of my children dying because I didn't take care of my wife who was mentally unstable and I can see myself turning psychotic after.

Anyway, that's my take on that and maybe the viewers didn't need to be re-confirmed on exact details but I liked it nonetheless and I think the fact that there's a history of relapse is an important detail and it was essential to my understanding of the repeated relapse of Andrew Laeddis.

I, however, do not agree with speculations that Andrew is consciously making the choice of escaping the reality by going back to Teddy and for voluntary lobotomy. If he was doing that, Scorsese would've gone a different direction from the beginning with Teddy giving hints about how he is aware of himself being Andrew. He does not, so I do think Scorsese intended the audience to recognize that Andrew is not consciously "pulling a Teddy" and pretending the whole way through the movie and pretending at the end. If Andrew was just pretending to be Teddy, then his relapse 9 months ago would be the same as this one and that would be implying that he has been pretending for 9 months and this whole movie and his internal confusion/conflict would be deemed useless and pretentious.

PS: WTF at the picture below.. can someone erase that?

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Permalink Reply by Reggie Righteous on February 28, 2010 at 11:24pm

you should be able to delete that picture cause its your discussion, so you should be able to delete comments

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on March 1, 2010 at 2:38am

i can delete my comments/discussion but not his ;_;

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on March 1, 2010 at 5:35pm

yay image deleted by spill crew =D thanks.. to spill screw .. not the guy i'm replying to but thanks for insightful reply down there.. nonetheless

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Permalink Reply by Reggie Righteous on February 28, 2010 at 11:23pm

i agree with most of what your saying

i loved the movie, especially the ending. But i saw it coming, which really pissed me off. But i got over it, i just really like to be surprised but i guess since im a fellow film maker i noticed all the little wink winks and clues that lead to the twist.

but overall i still give it a low Full Price. i was gonna give it a high Matinee but that last line literally made me say "......wow." its one of those lines that really make you think, so that brought it up to a low Full Price.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Schutzman on March 2, 2010 at 2:01pm

I think he chooses to get the lobotomy in the end because he knows the truth and although he can face it, he is afraid that like 9 months ago he will be like a tape recorder and again live a lie so now he gives himself up to die a good man. I loved the ending and the last line no doubt made the movie for me.

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Permalink Reply by Millie on March 2, 2010 at 2:27pm

The thing that i loved most about this movie was the script, the dialogue between the characters. I thought it was really well written and every single thing the characters said was smart and interesting. As someone obsessed with movie quotes, i got a lot of good ones out of this movie, especially the last phrase. The only thing i really hated was that sometimes it just got waaaaaay too slow. I understand the significance of all the hallucinations, but i think that sometimes they dwelled a little too long on the same idea instead of moving on. Especially during the ending when he was reliving how his children died, that could have been edited a lot more because i felt that they tried to make it emotional but to me it wasn't an emotional movie, it was a psychological one and i just wanted to get back to the present.

I am also one of the people who believe that he went into the lobotomy intentionally. Its just that the look that him and chuck exchanged right before completely convinced me that he knew what he was doing. i think that his memory came back for good this time because he was off his meds.

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on March 2, 2010 at 5:45pm

I thought it did slow down a little bit here and there during hallucinations but it didn't come to a point where I was like.. 'man I wish I could go back to the present'

I got a free pass to see at the theater I saw before... I'm gonna go see it again just because you two share the same opinion on the lobotomy x_x

Although I tend to be easily influenced by "peer pressure" ... gonna go check and decide for myself...

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Permalink Reply by David Jung on March 3, 2010 at 12:58am

I have some experience with mentally ill people and I love psychological films.. sometimes those insane people have a moment of sanity before they go back to insane.. their trauma and their emotional scar may be too big to recover from.. as i mentioned earlier, when I saw that he turned back to Andrew Laeddis, he only recovered to the point where he turned insane.. he didn't get past his pain nor did he face it... well that's my opinion anyway

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